No offense meant by humble me! Your right that some prefere to have it and some don’t - I think making it modular ( have the good strap but still an audio jack) would be good since it could serve both.
Your review, whilst very technical in most aspects,did have a negative slant especially at the conclusion. There is nothing wrong with that, it’s a review that is the purpose. However, your thoughts go against the impressions of the three other reviewers positivity and in some regards the backers in Berlin. They are the enthusiasts and perhaps show their bias that way. With the price Pimax are asking for these headsets,surely it’s obvious these aren’t mass market devices? The price alone puts them into the enthusiast category. Therefore I think (and as proven by the other reviews) enthusiasts are quite capable and accepting of jumping through a few hoops here and there, I am sure you will agree.
I think it would be great then if Pimax develop a set of tools like Geoforce Experience (yeh I know lots of people hate that) in design where optimal settings are saved on a per game basis that would be auto loaded based on your system spec. That would take some of the fiddling out of it. The bottom line is though, many people here in particular have their go-to games such as PGR 2, Elite D etc. Once they get those working properly won’t need to fiddle too much after that.
Anyway, good of you to come here and explain yourself. I didn’t think you were being racist either, but I could see how it would look to some people. Not sure why you need to apologise though. You wrote what you did, felt the need to add that context, no need to go back on that is there. “I’m sorry… but”.
Thing is, even on the rift and vive, if you move your eyes much off the sweetspot (which is much smaller than on the pimax) you get some distortion/moregodrays/bluriness, so how anyone was expecting pimax to completely solve this issue which all other headsets suffer from, i just din’t know.
People often presume the best case. Reporting details is presented in a format thst fits your audience.
If your audience is more pickup & play folks then folks need to know this is not for faint of heart.
With og Vive & rift & other gen1 headsets folks have learned how to accomodate gen1 issues/limitations. Wide FoV headsets tries to restore a more natural experience with moving your eyes(as a result you might even blink).
However it’s good but not there quite yet. One will need to learn to swim in the sweet spot or the effect may cause a “break” in the experience.
So something new to get used to. Perhaps eyetracking can adjust the distortion for better syncing image clarity due to region & angle eye is looking through the lense. But that is a future possibility at this time.
It’s hard to read the review and not see it as punishingly harsh. Time will tell whether this aligns with the general consensus on whether what pimax has delivered here is fit for sale.
This looks more like a tantrum than a review to me, did they play any games as after the first set of charts and measurements I fell asleep.
Here are the main key points from the review.
1st 5K + offers an undeniable quality in matters of clarity
1st No headstrap and archaic design for fitting the HMD.
2nd no headphones as standard
3rd Sweaty face foam even when resting.
4th an expectation of being able to view the outside world at ease.
5th cheap angular design rather than ergonomic roundness of its competitors.
6th Lens distortions of every calibre.
7th The glare ratio is very similar to that of the HTC VIVE or RIFT (god rays?)
8th black level is quite disappointing in comparison to Oled displays
9th Moiré pattern visible
10th Suffers from Backlight bleeding
11th optical aberrations ruin immersion outside of the sweet spot
12th nose distortions ruin the experience for daily use
13th no headphones included.(mentioned twice)
14th in extreme situations Vive pro tracking still better.
15th performance at Pitool rendering 0.5 should not be an option
16th GTX 1080 struggles a little
17th PiTools lost synchronisation requiring to redo the pairing process.
18th 5K + is a prototype of something further down the line
19th lots of hoops to jump through. Not a consumer product
20th Users will notice issues once they use it for a while, more extreme users won’t care.
Sounds like a pretty fair and balanced review.
Accordingly, vivepro is not a consumer product either.
-no progress in FOV
-SDE could be better thanks to pentile
-not plug and play, because depending on the game you have to change the settings in steam
-It’s cumbersome to remove the headphones, because many people want to use their own headphones, which usually sound better.
Although It wasn’t my purpose, it’s obvious that the review has that negative feeling hanging around. The reason could be that the Pimax environment is a kind of a chaos. Do this, then do that, watch out to click here before… then the game refuses to run (In death from Oculus store crashed every time, Nefertiti journey from SteamVR loaded with all the marvelous textures corrupted or the 30FPS at Moss no matter what I tried… etc), so had to go back, do that again… too much of my time for a little time inside VR. It reminded me of the old good times with the OSVR and the DK2, when just seeing an image on the headset after some failures was a complete success.
Talking about the errors again, I say the same again: they are there, in front of your eyes. As a reviewer, I can’t say you will not notice them, because although you could forget them in a certain game, they are going to be there until the next time you see them again. Like the SDE right now. Or should I say: hey, don’t look there, just focus on the great, clean image of the sweet spot.
And about the mass market device… I think it is not a matter of price but a matter of the Pimax ecosystem. I can’t recommend this device to someone new to VR. We need a plug and play headset for them. And that is what Pimax should achieve sooner than later.
Ah, the list of cos and pros. Does a review need to match both numbers? Thanks to make a resume of all the errors I got, anyway. More or less the same I found on GO, Rift the first time, Vive the first time or Vive Pro the first time.
I don’t know who, but most of us knew that huge FoV was an impossible task for a small company. Two seconds with the Pimax and you will know exactly all the work Pimax has still ahead.
Here’s the harsh again. Yes. Based on our experience, Pimax has a lot of problems to solve before calling the 5K+ a consumer headset. Yes, Pimax also has to learn how to proceed with some stuff without asking the user to adjust it. Is that harsh? Please, let’s talk in English and stop reading my Spanish words with google translator and then throw them to me.
I’m here, man. Talk to me. Again, I’m not mad with Pimax. This is a review in a foreign language and I’m trying to explain the ideas in English to sound a little more like you could read it if I have written it in English. And please, give me a little of credit here. There’s too much experience behind the review to call it just a frustration scream. And of course, I’ve played a lot with the Pimax. God, we do games reviews over there. We have more keys and games than we could play in a lifetime.
Consumer product: a good ecosystem, some good games, stable and easy hardware. Vive, PSVR and Oculus Rift & Go. Vive PRO, as Vive said, was meant to be in arcades and for B2B market. Not my words.
Hi Oscar, I personally spoke of a out of place comment, because although Pimax has difficulty communicating with us, They did listen a great deal to our needs and demands, and the head band with headphones is planned so a characterization of this company with a general cultural feature you believe thru was both inaccurate and misplaced even more for a pre-retail product. I don’t know you so I will not infer more to this then what I’ve read in the translation engine.
Because you don’t know me, and my text was in a foreign language that you don’t speak, I would have probably asked the writer before. Anyway, I can assure you that none of our feedback ideas during the 8K M1 beta tester days were even discussed by Pimax up to today. Glad they changed their mind about the rubber bands because of your comments. There are nearly another twenty waiting at the buffer.
I have only applied your strict standards, which you applied to the pimax, to the vivepro with some sarcastic intent
Hi Oscar, great that you turn up here and offer to defend your article.
While I can appreciate a lot of points you make in the article, I do have to mention a couple of points which I find difficult to understand (based on the Google translation, that is, but it was good enough I think) - especially from somebody who obviously spent a lot of time to work on the review. I apologize for the tone of my remarks, but I will be quite frank, that’s how we Northern Europeans (often) are. And to all others: really sorry for the wall of text, just skip it !
First of all, this is a KS project, and if you had read the description, delivery schedule & updates from Pimax you would have learned that this will not end up in a consumer ready delivery in one go. No, they always said that the different parts of the Pimax eco-system will be shipped when ready: first the headsets, then at some stage and in some order the audiostrap, controllers, base stations.
So why do you pretend that the missing audio strap is an issue at this stage ? This is NOT the complete package, Pimax never said it was, this is a KS release as they said they would perform it ?! If you don’t like it this way, they even offered to backers to wait until the complete package is ready - how on earth can one call them out for this ?!
And we are still talking of a KS delivery, not even retail at all !
May I remind you, that your HTC buddies are still selling the Vive (not Pro) with the same old elastic strap, and the DAS is optional ? I don’t blame them for that, expensive car manufacturers do the same - you won’t believe how bare bones your car is if you don’t order dozens of optional items. Here this is actually not necessarily bad - for those who want their Sennheiser headsets - why should they pay for the audio strap nevertheless ? But the main point is the first para above - your comment on the missing audio is just random & unfair.
I find it astonishing that for the VR market, which is still a niche with a high degree of enthusiasts amongst the users, you focus entirely on the suitability of the product for entry level consumers who are not willing to spend a bit of time for set up & operation of the product. And to make it worse, this headset is aiming at the high-end of the niche consumer VR market. You can safely assume that 80% of those willing to spend €1,000+ for the complete VR set and in addition invest heavily in a high-end computer are the opposite of the users you seem to consider as the only relevant target group for Pimax - casual users with little interest in playing a bit with the settings. Sorry, imho they never were the target group. If somebody reviews a Lotus Exige and I notice that the reviewer was writing his review looking at how useful this car will be for elderly women, and half of his complainst focus on how it doesn’t offer a lot of comfort nor the space to transport your weekly shopping load for a big family, then I scratch my head and think “didn’t he notice that this car has a completely and utterly different target audience ? How could he have missed that ?”.
Glare - I take that means Godrays. From what I heard from all the Berlin testers the Pimax has greatly reduced Godrays, absolutely no comparison to the Vive and Rift. (And I myself saw the V2 which was a revelation in terms of Godrays, but that of course where the custom lenses). You say the exact opposite, no improvement. I have to assume that you measured it with some kind of tool and did not trust your eyes. And my general impression is, that the belief in nice little tools, either 3rd party or self-made, has led to a group of testers here forget to look at the product with the eyes of a user, and instead tried to make it a kind of scientific exercise which sounds impressive when put on paper, but in some aspects lacks to capture the essence. Sometimes a thing is more than the sum of its parts, sometimes it is less. If you have convinced yourself that the Godrays in the Pimax are not greatly improved - err… wow.
You don’t go into detail mentioning the games you say don’t work with the Pimax due to weird stretching etc., but you sure make it sound like it is hit & miss, 50:50 chance of a game not being enjoyable/playable. Looking at the reviews of the three Youtubers, this appears to be a misrepresentation of the facts. And as they mention really not that many, I really start to wonder if there is a hidden agenda. This kind of remark kills a product if your readers believe you. And it fits the remark, that the Oculus compatibility is currently present, but a large risk because Oculus may at any point block the Pimax. Again, if you are knowledgeable about the VR eco systems, then you must be aware that a) Oculus has surrendered its aggressive stance on exclusivity when Revive was unblocked again, and b) Revive works with the Pimax, so the users could always use the work-around via Revive (be it at a cost of performance but Oculus exclusives typically are not the most performance hungry because Oculus is aiming at a broader market). So if Oculus blocks Revive too, it will not only affect Pimax users but also Vive users. Did your website point that out in the Vive pro review as a huge risk too ? I bet it wasn’t flagged the same way. Biased reviews?
Finally, you blame Pimax for giving the users a choice. Hey, I would bet a large amount that if Pimax said the opposite, and the 5K+ appears to be more attractive in some aspects than the 8K, and Pimax says, no, you pledged for the 8K, you get the 8K, you would have attacked them vigorously for that too. Ah, but they could let them compare the headsets - so Pimax should spend half a million or so to organize roadshows in 50 cities to at least give 60% of the backers a chance ? What about the other 40% who don’t live near a bigger city ? In Alaska ? New Zealand ? Whatever Pimax do, it seems they would be blamed for not doing it the other way. Again I find the approach to be pretty unfair.
At the end you come to the conclusion that you will stick to your current headset and will pass on the Pimax. Fair enough, if the distortions etc. are too annoying for you. But I am afraid for the majority of users the SDE, FoV, resolution, Godrays, etc. of the current generation, when compared to the Pimax, are much bigger flaws (even if you would not technically want to call some of them flaws but just lower specs). I tried the V2 briefly last year, I noticed a convergence issue and distortions at the outer rim left & right, but when I came back it took me a couple of days to be able to enjoy my Rift (& Vive) again - it was just such a major difference, and the big ugly shortcomings of the current gen felt so exposed that I would instantly have welcomed the Pimax V2 ‘as is’ instead.
I get it if you use the headsets for work, e.g. design, and the perfect geometry is absolutely key to your use of VR, but I honestly don’t think that many gamers will concur with your view here.
But the good thing is - we don’t need to debate it, we will see very soon. The backers will get their headsets, and if after 6 months many of them are trying to sell their headsets, you were right.
Please don’t get me wrong - I don’t mean to attack you as a person, not at all. I am only responding to the review. But the tone of the review is overall rather negative and on a couple of points I really found it to be lacking an objective, unbiased view. The review would be acceptable if directed at newcomers who inquire what the easiest way into VR is without too much fuss & cost, but if this is also directed at the normal audience of your website, being people already into VR, I have difficulties to not suspect a hidden agenda.
TL;DR I don’t buy some of the arguments brought up against the 5K+ in the article, they seem to be actively pushing the negatives plus inventing one or two along the way in order to arrive at a negative conclusion. Why ?
No he means in general. The elastic band head mount should not be standard anymore. Sony really nailed this out of the park.
Imho the deluxe headband should be standard; but include the cloth strap for backup or a user whom might prefer it.
But 2b fair pimax has not advertised a retail package or sku options.
And we know for sure that this will not be the case? In the exact minute HTC is still selling the Vive without the headphones https://www.vive.com/us/product/vive-virtual-reality-system/
Seems asking a lot for a small cie, personally I prefer to have it in option if the prices are adjusted accordingly
Re read edit.
No comment needed great idea!
@bubbleball has suggested the same. If early backers one of each headset were able to organise meetups the community can fill gaps for folks wanting to try it out.
Which is a great idea!
so 5k+ is a piece of garbage? this review is so much more negative than the swevivers, voodoo and mrtv reviews. dont undertand. they said that 5k+ is the best headset in the market but if i see only this review i would not buy it for sure.
for example - The glare ratio is very similar to that of the HTC VIVE or RIFT (god rays?) , sweviver and mrtv didnt said that was much better than vive and rift. and also less than odissey ? https://youtu.be/bcZ0CXP0qgU?t=53m44s
You must understand that from a backers point of view, on one side we have 3 reviewers saying that the 5k+ is crushing any competition and about 50 happy peoples in this Berlin meeting backing this view. On the other side another reviewer is telling us that winter in coming and the end of the world could possibly happen to.
If I speak for myself, it’s not true that I will compromise quality for FOV dimension, if the amount of aberrations and distortions are so high has you say, I want Pimax to fix it!
And I think many of us are in the same league here, we are debating in this forum about SDE and distortion for days now using zoomed pictures up to the pixel level! In a forum pool most user wants to upgrade to a 2080TI. I will stretch my idea to a probable consensus that most of us want an affordable StarVr One headset.
So in this sense your review of the 5K+ is critical in both sense. Is it possible you got a lemon 5k+ of that your setup was not representative of the ones used in other reviews? Could a setup using a 1080TI reduce the problems you seen in your review?
Looking forward to read your follow up on the 8K…