Should we be worried about the future?

So we got 2 kickstarer update messages today.
BOTH of them are very concerning if you ask me!

The first one for 8KX owners, if you have a RTX 3000 series card you can get 90Hz, “yay”
Except the wording used
“Offers Free Beta Update”

Maybe it’s just a bad use of English, but it sounds like they want to charge for new firmware updates?!
All firmware updates for devices should be free for any consumer product!
The only ones who charge are for business users, for things like server updates.
Even then I think that’s down right underhanded as well! So good thing I’m not a business

Second, as we all know is the downright ridiculous decision to add ransomware to PiTool!
Pay up your tax bill or we’ll stop you using the hardware
Sorry but an apology isnt good enough, this never should have happened in the first place!
I am fine with paying my taxes, but the problem is that the kickstarter has been delayed and you are sending items out separately!
The backer box contained many items which were free to backers! Yet we’re having to pay taxes for the retail price?!
So since we didnt pay any taxes for the headsets, I am fine with paying these taxes, UPTO the kickstarter price!
But seeing as we still have our controllers and wireless to ship, we’ll see what happens if the figure goes above that value.

But this is again thanks to the bad communication, and sometimes lack of it, from Pimax.
Sure there are some who didnt realise they had to pay taxes, but I think at first there was no mention of taxes originally on their site.

PImax have done SO many wrong things since the start of this kickstarter.
The ransomware alone is going to scare off a lot of customers now!

So what else can we except from Pimax in the future?

1 Like
2 Likes

You bought a product with a given spec.

Specs are upgraded and you don’t have to pay, so they call it free.

This makes you upset.

What grounds do you have to be in a position where you expect free upgrades? So yeah, good that you don’t run a business.

Pimax fcked up colossally with the ransomware, 100% agreement.

But they did react and they committed categorically.

There are a considerable amount of legitimate complaints on here but they get drowned in bollocks posts just like this.

Consider what reason you have to behave as entitled as you do. If all else fails, just try the same effort that Pimax did and do better.

6 Likes

OP was 3h ago. Pimax official statement was 17h ago. Obviously someone was very upset, and did not read much further.

I get the expectation of ongoing support for high-tech hardware we already own. But as early adopters of VR, early adopters of an especially capable VR headset, and pushing our CPU/GPU hardware to the limit to do somewhat experimental things like flight sim, we have some obligation to pay attention too.

1 Like

“we have some obligation to pay attention too.”

Indeed, maybe you should read my post again and realise what the question is :wink:

Wow, reading this reminds me that everything can be turned upside down.
They are not upgrading any specs, obviously the Headset is capable of the 90hz. They are just tuning their drivers in order to make use of it. Lets take this thing to Nvidia level. Are you ok with paying for a driver update from Nvidia which increases the clock speed because they realized that the driver was just not ready and stable enough for this clock speed when they released the graphic card? I for sure wont, and thats exactly what the topic creator is stating. I am relatively new to the Pimax world and havnt bought the 8kx yet, but im reading along and things like that look scammy as f*** . Pointing out that a driver update is free is on the same level like those scammy free handy games with their advertises. “Click here for free gold, afterwards pay 100$ to play further”. Thats nothing i want to see on such a product. And yes, what the topic creator is stating is true: this is scaring people away. Its the very same thing with the poll about removing a given feature from the pitool (upscale mode). It simply scares of new customers. Why? Because it gives you the feeling that you cannot rely on this product.

Again, i appreciate that they released the 90hz and also that they try to involve the community by making these polls. Of course that shows that they do care and improve things, thats good. But at the same time its important to point out that this may sound fishy from another point of view.

Overall i think pimax is on a good way, but theres still room for improvement :slight_smile:

I got your post. You’re upset.
Seems kind of a knee jerk reaction in unwarranted anticipation of charges Pimax has specifically said we will not incur.

1 Like

For the record we have no plans of any kind to charge for these updates.

The reason it says “free” is because when we were discussing this update with members of the media some of them pointed out other companies might try to charge for this sort of upgrade and we wanted to make sure it was clear it’s just a free update for anyone with an 8KX and a 30 series card.

We will continue to actively try to improve the firmware in tangible ways just like we have done for all of our headsets for years. Even the original Pimax 4K has received updates relatively recently.

Bottom line is if we find a way to offer better functionality to our customers we will continue to pursue that.

21 Likes

Thanks for clearing that up, really appreciated :+1:

I wouldn’t use the term “ransomware”. That would be reserved for denial of access to something you own. If you buy a car and don’t totally pay for it they will come and take it back.
Not saying the method wouldn’t deserve backlash, if done without clear evidence of who owes, how much exactly and what notifications have been submitted. As you point out, communications aren’t easy (especially in Pimaxland) and so they shouldn’t be too hasty with any collections procedure.

What? I’ve been away for about a month. And I came back to hearing that ransomware was added to pitool and now they are considering removing upscale mode?.

No. no. no. I bought tge 8kx because of the option to run it lower res, changing that now would turm me off of Pimax forevor. Especially since the only reason I could see for its removal is to make their 8k vision less pointless.

Maybe not, more like “Nagware” … but it feels like Tridef all over again. Theres nothing more scary than knowing a software dead man’s switch exists in a product that you bought and have every right to expect to use without issue or nagware should the company not be around anymore for the software to call home.

2 Likes

Not familiar with the Tridef issue but ya companies that find themselves going out of business should remove such restrictions.
In this case though, it isn’t about going out of business and shutting down support, it’s the method of debt collection they have invoked which they have every right to do, if justified. The difficulty is explaining things effectively with the language gap.

I can only relate my own experience in that when Pimax screwed up and charged me taxes on my 5K+ RMA it was difficult to convey why it was their fault to support in China. Fortunately the North American depot was handling the replacement back then and as they were the ones who actually made the mistake on customs documentation and I was able to get them to pick up the support ticket and my Paypal was credited.
It is much more difficult given communication with Chinese support can make it hard to explain. Back then I had the advantage of dealing directly with the department that made the mistake (the US depot) and their admission to the error in an email. Even when sending a copy of that email to China support, they didn’t understand the customs error well enough and I had to have NA support explain it to them before it got resolved.

I would encourage Pimax not to consider locking out anyone’s software without being absolutely certain they are in the right. I have seen other instances where Pimax has credited people, as well, when they themselves are at fault, so I do feel they try to be fair if they understand a given situation well enough.

1 Like

It doesn’t and that part wasn’t even implemented yet and even in the plan it wasn’t a dead man’s switch. That would cause something to refuse to startup if it couldn’t reach out to a server which wasn’t part of it.

It was in effect a simple nag screen.

4 Likes

A “simple nag screen” that threatens to disable hardware if payments are not happening within a given timeframe is already several miles on the wrong side of the border. And the open letter mentions that “we have decided to remove the ability for Pitool’s operation to be changed remotely for all upcoming Pitool releases” - which indicates that such functionality is indeed in place.
I don’t know which statement is right - just don’t even consider such things, it’s wrong, probably not only from a marketing perspective but also legally.

Edit: Has anybody checked PiTool 270 regarding outgoing and incoming traffic - is it still trying to call home or was the “feature” removed now?

Ok, have checked network activity of PiTool .270. This is what I see:

  1. communication with a rest service on piserver.pimaxvr.com:
    a) sending my computer configuration (serial number of my 8kX, CPU, GPU, Windows version, PiTool version, versions of various drivers etc.)
    b) downloading and uploading several gzipped streams
  2. communication with pimax.odoo.com: Lengthy back and forth exchange with the Pimax ERP system (it is all binary data)

I understand that 1a can be helpful for debugging purposes or for getting usage statistics. But I would much prefer if this would be transparent and optional - like with most other software that collects user metrics - there should be an option “send usage statistics to Pimax” that can be disabled

regarding 1b: The only valid reason why PiTool needs to download binary data to my PC would be for firmware or software updates. There should be a button “check for updates” and unless this is pressed I don’t see any need for data transfers from or to my PC

And for 2: Can you please explain why PiTool needs to talk to your ERP system?

Good news is: If I block all incoming and outgoing traffic for PiTool, PiService, PiServiceLauncher etc. via firewall then the 8kX still works. So at least they currently don’t seem to enforce a connection to the Pimax servers for PiTool to work.

4 Likes